gtmPRO

#45: Package Recommendation Over Pricing: The Real Sales Pitch

Gary, Andy & Tiana Season 5 Episode 5

Have you ever wondered how a simple purchase, like a toilet, could transform your understanding of sales dynamics? Inspired by April Dunford's unique shopping experience, we shed light on how strategic package recommendations can transform the way B2B sales are conducted. Join us as we uncover the art of positioning yourself as a trusted advisor, focusing on building buyer confidence and trust, even if it occasionally means putting aside personal commission incentives. In this episode, we tackle the challenge of balancing quick wins with deep, meaningful solutions in package recommendations. By understanding a client's readiness and capacity, we emphasize the importance of starting small yet strategically, ensuring that even the most inexperienced companies can rapidly achieve and recognize their "moment of value."

Gary:

Welcome to the GTM Pro Podcast, your essential audio resource for mastering go-to-market discussions in the boardroom. Here we share insights for revenue leaders at B2B software and services companies, especially those with less than $50 million in revenue. Why? Because the challenges faced by companies of this size are unique. They are too big to be small and too small to be big. This dynamic pushes revenue leaders into executive leadership without a lot of help or support. We are here to provide that support. Your journey to boardroom excellence starts now.

Gary:

Now, welcome back to GTM Pro. All right, well, we don't do a lot of video here, but I'm sporting the red sweatshirt because my Buckeyes have a big game Saturday night against the Oregon Ducks. So go Bucs. But we're not here to talk about football. We're here to talk about package recommendation over pricing. What does that mean?

Gary:

So, as we think about the discovery process and especially getting our buyers to confidence, one of the most powerful things that we can do is to, as we have listened to our buyer throughout the process and understand their situation, is when we get ready to present, if we haven't already, some form of pricing.

Gary:

We're way better off actually presenting a recommendation based on everything that they've told us, because that is part of what they're looking for in terms of an advisor or a guide, and that's the role that we can play. And sometimes that's hard to do, because your recommendation may actually be counter to your personal commission objective and that's another topic we'll get to towards the end of the conversation which is, hey, companies and founders, we need to make sure that we are aligning our incentive structures with how the buyer wants to buy, so that we can make sure that there's expansion and retention capabilities there as well, because that's where the real power in growth lies. So we were actually chatting before we hit record April Dunford's book, the Sales Pitch. She goes through a really great example, a colloquial example, and Andy and I were chatting about that. So, andy, what struck you about her example?

Andy:

Describe it.

Gary:

I guess for those who haven't read the book.

Andy:

Yeah, I'll probably paraphrase her paraphrasing of the story and I hope I do it justice April, but I love her story about buying a toilet. So, buying a toilet, yes, she was remodeling a bathroom and she was like, hey, maybe I'll just replace the toilet. And so she's, you know, getting the contractor in there and ripped it out. And so she went to the store and she realized it was not as easy as she may have anticipated. There was a lot of choices, a lot of different examples. The showroom in the back of the store had a lot, and so she ended up long story short on that, deciding she didn't want to even buy a new one because it was so overwhelming. And so she went back to the contractor and said, can I use my old toilet? And they're like we already recycled it. She's like darn to go back to the store and figure this out. So she went. There was a different salesperson there that started to walk her through it. That started to walk her through it.

Andy:

And this is really where I feel like the package recommendation and the trust in the seller and decision confidence all really came to bear was what this person did was kind of go through a process of elimination Probably more examples than I'm about to describe, but the starting point was some people like a really fancy toilet and some people like a straightforward, practical toilet. Okay, I want a practical one, so we can eliminate all those choices. Then there's some really reliable toilets that you would use for daily use, versus, like, if you have a vacation home. These are, like you know, ones that if you don't use it very often, they're going to be just fine, but they're not as like built as well as the other ones. Well, I use it all the time. Okay, so we can eliminate these partial you know, partial time ones.

Andy:

She ended up I think there were a few more questions like that but she ended up with like three choices and this individual was like I worked for this company, super reliable, and this individual is like I work for this company, super reliable, might as well just do that one. And so the salesperson was actually able to sell the product that they represented but eliminated to such a few set of choices that she had a ton of confidence that she was in the right ballpark. It was the right group and the rationale, going through it and getting to decision, confidence and the reasons he was recommending the package were very consumable and straightforward to her, and so I obviously, in what we do, bubbled that up to oh wow, there's actually some real life examples with clients we've worked with with clients we're working with where that totally makes sense in the SaaS space. And so that was the genesis of like wow man, april just nailed that for me and you know, it really resonated.

Gary:

So yeah, and she uses in many ways. She talks about approaches. Right, there may be a hundred individual solutions in a particular market, but, to your point, the sales rep there put them into approaches. Well, this whole group of individual toilets belongs over here in this category, and if you need that, then great, that's where you should look. And if not, then you don't even have to look at all of them. You don't look at any of them because they're that whole approach. It doesn't make sense for you, and so that's part of of what we seek to know.

Gary:

When, when a buyer is talking to us, by definition a buying process has been kicked off. Very rarely are they just going to buy the first thing they see. They may be, we may be the first ones that they're talking to, which has advantages and disadvantages, but they're going to be looking at other things, and so we want to know that. Who else is on your list? Well, sometimes that's a prying question, but as we think about it from a solution landscape perspective and we start asking well, how are you thinking about solving this problem? What ways are you evaluating to do that? Now you're opening up. I just want to understand what that is and you can help provide them some context. But if we bring that all the way down to the end and now we've done a thorough job of discovery, understanding the company dynamics, the department dynamics, the job to be done, as defined by workflows, not the symptoms that they bring you, but the problem, because we need to make sure that they have thoroughly defined the problem so that they have confidence. Otherwise, very likely some other provider is going to provide potentially a little bit different way to solve it and suddenly they realize, oh, I don't know that I've actually defined the problem all that well, and so they have to back all the way up to the beginning and start over. They don't tell us that, they just ghost us. So that's critically important.

Gary:

And then we've also gone through and understood the individual dynamics in terms of experience matching. So when we get to the point where we're presenting pricing, which is typically where it comes up, we're really leaning into a package recommendation. We're really leaning into a package recommendation. And what we really need to be careful of and this is why experience matching is so important, as well as all the dynamics is that the company may be a slam dunk fit for our product or set of products. Right. They're right in the middle of IC or ideal customer profile definition. They're not using any competing tools. They have a sufficient amount of volume or size or what have you to justify a business case and they could buy our suite of three or four products there's, there's really they can get immediate value out of it.

Gary:

But if that's what we present, then we also obviously it helps us from a salesperson perspective because we're going for the fences but we haven't taken the time to identify or we ignore the fact that we have an early champion who has never bought software ever, especially at the company where they currently sit, and we haven't thoroughly understood the process to get the decision-making process. We may be setting them up for some difficult conversations with the economic buyers and other members of the committee because of the perceived risk and implementation, and so, while over time they may be an ideal candidate for all of our set of solutions, it may actually be best for them for where they are, to start with a smaller entry point where they can get some quick wins and then build more, much more easily build a business case towards that, and and that is the core concept behind the package recommendation.

Andy:

Quick win versus deep win is kind of how I'm thinking about that relative to buyer experience, right.

Andy:

So, and speaking to the champion, right, they have to bring it to the company and in a sense I don't know if you'd actually make that part of the I'm recommending this for these reasons kind of rationale for package recommendation to the buyer, or whether that's just in the background, the salesperson in their savvy manner thinking through that and saying I'm not going to swing for the fences because I know this champion doesn't have a ton of experience.

Andy:

I know the company doesn't have a ton of experience, so they need to get to value quickly. But again, whether you overtly say that or not, that's going to be there from a commissioning perspective for the salesperson. They're going to have to make that trade-off to say you know what, it's more important for this buyer to have success quickly, especially given their lack of experience, versus me getting the bigger commission because you know what. They're the right size company to sell this higher package to, but they're going to maybe have trouble implementing it across the entire team that's using yeah Well, but the package recommendation actually has more power when you give options, right.

Gary:

I mean, just take the example you just provided. I'm like well, that boils you down to three different choices here, and they're all good, but I represent this one and you're really not going to go wrong if you pick any one of these three, but here's the one. In our case. We're not going to provide recommendations for our competitors. But take the example we just said where, let's say, there's three products in the complete solution set, but one of them is much easier to implement, adopt and get to quick wins than the others. You present both and say well, as we talked about everything that you're trying to accomplish, here is the package that actually makes sense for you. However, you know, understand that it's kind of a three-phased approach in terms of implementation, and here's who needs to be involved and here's what the business case is going to look like. So another option you may consider is to actually start with this one, where you know implementation is much easier, you can get to some quick wins, it seems to satisfy some of these core initiatives that you're trying to solve for and it actually propels you towards this solution, making the implementation of these other parts of the platform that much easier. So those are really your options as you think about solution making the implementation of these other parts of the platform that much easier. So those are really your options as you think about it, right? So you're giving them now context to be able to understand.

Gary:

Okay, now this goes to the recommendation and the subsequent discussions, and what's required from an onboarding perspective is you now need to provide me confidence, and the way I get to confidence is that I understand what is required of me to implement these sets of solutions appropriately, so that I have confidence that I'm going to get to the value that I'm paying for. If you don't and you leave it a mystery to me, I'm like, oh, it's easy, and we just kind of walk through the process. I'm not going to have confidence. And so, when I understand both of those things, you may very well. First of all, back to your point about trusting the seller the fact that you've presented two different options, one of which may be significantly less expensive than the other, and you've explained the reasons why it may make sense, which has nothing to do with product and features or what have you, but more about their ability to get success. Trust goes through the roof at that point. I think so.

Andy:

Yeah, I think that way outweighs the fact that you're still you're you. You leave them with a choice, in a way, which you're you know getting to a recommendation Ideally. That's one thing, and you have the reasons why. I think that the fact that you're giving them a choice in that case is is way outweighed by the fact that you're giving them the reasons. You're giving them the choice to say, like we're really trying to work backwards from a moment of value that is the North star here, and so there's there's, there's maybe a bigger value to this thing, but it's going to be a little harder for you that that absolutely, I think, would.

Gary:

Yeah, and moment of value going back to our previous podcast on spiced would be impact. Right, we're working backwards from impact. What's that first moment of impact where you can see, yep, this is working, this is great, this makes sense. And what's required of you to get there? And what is the bandwidth of your resources? The expertise, the time competing priorities, all of those things that stand in the way of that expertise, the time competing priorities, all of those things that stand in the way of that. And you also bring up a good point too, which is and this is where we get into alignment of structures, excuse me, incentive structures is.

Gary:

Many times we intentionally or unintentionally set our sellers up to go for the maximum package because we have a different team that's responsible for quote, unquote expansion. And, interestingly, what that often does is it actually sets us up for churn and lack of expansion, because people we, we we've convinced them that they have all this value and that they can get there, but then they run into a bunch of internal roadblocks that prevents them from implementing it appropriately so that they get to impact. Next thing, you know, you're six months into a 12-month contract and they still haven't started the other components of the solution. And at that point they make a decision even though it's six months in and they have six months to go that this didn't just work out the way we thought, so we're not going to move forward with this. And they find other ways to solve the problem or think about another solution or whatever the case may be, and then you come around to your 90 days before renewal or 60 days before renewal they're saying no, we're not going to renew.

Andy:

well, it's too late, like the ship has sailed, best case scenario is a downsell at that point right because you've been fighting this vicious cycle of just trying to get them to value because you sold. You sold a lot of things and on paper it might, it might make sense for a company like that, but it's a vicious cycle because they're just struggling to get to value. The inverse of that is starting small. A number of different ways to describe starting small but getting them to value quicker.

Andy:

Getting them into that package that they can implement as a team, into that package that they can implement as a team. And then the virtuous cycle is well, we could add this other thing on this package here gets you here, and then you're going from a position of strength and you're not just fighting to keep the account.

Gary:

Right, yeah, and so from a unit economics perspective and just a formula to value, in an ideal world we have a customer acquisition process that is very short, very efficient, does not have a lot of back and forth, gets people quickly to that first moment of impact. Gets people quickly to that first moment of impact. Doing so creates the ingredients necessary for retention. But then we also have a pricing and packaging and product strategy that provides for expansion, and so we bring our customer on. We do it very efficiently. We get 100% GRR from that customer and we get 5, 10, 25, 40% expansion year over year. So the compounding value of that model, nobody would dispute that. But when you bring it down to practice, we actually create incentives and structures that work against that model. Yes, we do, and we end up, you know, the victim of our own demise.

Andy:

You also think about it too. The other dimension that's often forgotten is the overhead associated with closing that account in the first place, and that will factor into the salesperson's calculus, obviously in addition to their commission. But like doing if I don't need to spend as much time, kind of walking them through the bigger, the bigger package scenario getting, you know, more teams involved, getting more approvals involved we haven't even gotten to the technology review situation. You know, when you're doing enterprise stuff. But that will factor into the salesperson's calculus is I can get this sold much quicker, as well as my, my time. And then when you boil that up into the, the unit economics, it's, it's just, it's going's, just, it's going to be a lower CAC impact that we deliver and the moment of impact there's.

Gary:

I can think personally of many situations where we know as sellers and companies need our sellers to understand what is required not only from us but from our customers to successfully implement our solution and, to your point, in enterprise, solutions that can be quite complex. Our sellers need to understand that, because I can't be an advisor and a guide if I don't understand that.

Andy:

Yeah, we've said a couple of different times in podcasts and probably on LinkedIn, that if your product which in SaaS is almost every product requires your customer to do something, that's part of your product.

Gary:

Right? Yep, so you've got some form of implementation guide there, but we have a very eager champion. Maybe they're new, they came from another place that had all of that, that technology, and now they want to implement it, and we know that. And it doesn't have to be individual solutions, but it could be different components. It could be buying the whole platform and trying to implement everything at once a whole host of things. But if we and, frankly, almost worse, the champion is successful in convincing everybody that this is the thing, but then they are reliant on other departments to do some things in order to get value from that and they've underestimated how difficult that is to do then we are setting them off on a path to not have success and we're going to end up hurting ourselves.

Gary:

So, in a way, that's the whole point of being an advisor is look, you can basically proceed with caution. In order for this to work, you need to make sure that you've had converse this is where the onboarding comes in and, understanding this, make sure you've had conversations with your data security team with these implementations, because, yes, they will approve them at the surface level, but you're going to need them to interact with the warehouse or, you know, a sister technology stack or whatever, and if they have other priorities, and you know classic case of that, as we run into this all the time which is hey, this thing is awesome, you just need to drop this little widget in your product. Next thing you know, you know, four or five, six sprints go by and it's that little widget just never makes the, never makes the, uh, the roadmap. And you're sitting there waiting with this technology with, without any value, because you're you're waiting on your engineering team to drop it in. That's a great example of of dependencies engineering team to drop it in.

Andy:

That's a great example of of dependencies. It happens all the time where you, yeah, you're selling you said this, you said this yesterday when we were talking which is, you actually know more about the procurement process sometimes than that, than that champion, that person who came to you in the first place, that person who filled out the demo form that you're, that you're selling to, they don't know as much about what's going to need to happen as you do. So, speaking of decision, confidence and trust in the seller, you're walking them through that. First of all, you're making them not look bad for starters. You're kind of giving them a little bit of like background. I hate.

Andy:

You know, know what's probably going to happen here. We've worked with companies just like yours. You're going to have these steps you need to take internally. You need to get on a technology roadmap somewhere with, at least you know, some kind of IT implementation. Oh yeah, I didn't really think about that. That's such a great way to just build that trust and and also help guide the package recommendation, which is like, if you think there's probably some resistance here and you really haven't talked to this team or you're, you're getting a vibe from when you've worked with this other team in the past on other things, you can really I mean, that's really like touchy, feely discovery stuff and I think we should have pieces of that in discovery so that you can you can incorporate that in that package recommendation to say, you know what, based on everything you said about you know this, the prickliness of some of these other teams. Let's start here.

Gary:

Right Well again, trust goes through the roof right, yeah, when you mentioned that process, the package recommendation, I couldn't help but think. My dad, who was a German farm boy engineer, always said get three bids, get three perspectives, three bids, whatever you're doing, because somewhere in there lies the truth, and you can't get it with one. You don't need five, but you need three. The truth, and you can't get it with one. You don't need five, but you need three. Now we may not necessarily present three package recommendations, but if you take that approach and now you think that you're the champion and the champion is now presenting to the economic buyer and other stakeholders, but particularly the economic buyer, and they're like well, you know, we worked through this and this is the package I think we should go with. And they're like well, you know, we worked through this and this is the package I think we should go with.

Gary:

And then they immediately get questions like well, what are the options? How would you compare and contrast? You know, are there less expensive options? You know what about this? What about that, if you haven't gone through that with them, and you just said oh well, here's your package. They are naked, they have they. They look foolish there. They didn't do their homework right.

Gary:

But if you've been through that and you've provided those recommendations, especially when you're thinking through things beyond, like, well, this package has these features and this package doesn't have these features, but you're actually talking in terms of this implementation is much easier and you have these and then you can use this set of features to drive these capabilities. But in order to take advantage of those capabilities, you need to have these sets of skill sets inherent Sounds like you do. So. They have the ability to speak intelligently to their economic buyer and they're doing it with confidence, and now their buyer has confidence in the champion.

Andy:

Now the economic buyer does yeah, and that's where the the dance of do you name competitors or not, come in, um, but there's almost always one that is going to be in the consideration set. And whether you name them by name, it's probably going to be a very good idea to at least juxtapose your unique value, which is more than just the product, it's kind of the whole package relative to that, that one that you know is going to be there. If they want to tell you about others and so on, that's definitely where that comes in. And again, package recommendation it's another dimension, other than I'm recommending this, that we provide for these reasons. You're adding in other reasons why it's better than especially that one that you know is going to be there for you, for you and your situation and all those other details that we just talked about. Economic buyer, they're going to ask you these things. They're probably going to ask you, you and your situation and all those other details that we just talked about. Economic buyer, they're going to ask you these things.

Gary:

They're probably going to ask you about that 800 pound gorilla that we just talked about, and so this is how you Well, and that's when the going from the package recommendation now into next steps next steps is inherently regarding your understanding of the decision process and, in many ways, helping them with a more rigorous decision process.

Gary:

Sometimes, bigger companies, enterprise companies, have a procurement process. They've got it all out. They've got it wired process. They've got it all out. They've got it wired A lot of times, as Andy, as you said, because we've seen a bunch of procurement process. It's not uncommon for us, the sellers, to know more about what we expect the procurement process to be than the champion does, Especially if they're new to the company, haven't been through it. But in other cases it's with us to explore. And it's also common to have companies that actually don't have any rigor to the selection process.

Andy:

Very true.

Gary:

They're just. They may be and this is where relevant comparability comes in place they come in with three solutions that are wildly different, all of whom kind of do the same core thing. Maybe, yeah, theoretically you could get your core problem solved, but they all are to use April's terminology completely different approaches.

Andy:

One's the fancy toilet, one's the night and daily use toilet. Yeah yeah, they're completely different.

Gary:

Yes, Technically they all take stuff that we don't want in the house and move it out of the house, but they're very different approaches.

Andy:

Technically do the same thing. That's correct yeah.

Gary:

Yeah, and, and. So that is where we can now understand that decision process to your point and say, okay, now we can legitimately ask for well, how else are you thinking about? So, now that I've provided a recommendation and maybe it's come up earlier just organically in your conversation, how, what else are you? How else are you thinking about solving this problem? And that's how you get to the names that you're looking about. But then, but then so many times we hear in our film reviews and research and sales calls, they stop there. I'm like great, I'll send you some battle cards. Wrong, stop, okay, that's that. So can you tell me how those names got on the list? Like, what was your criterion for that, for those specifically? Maybe this is where you can reveal well, my boss used this in a previous job and, okay, that's very informative, right? How did it get there then? And how are you going to compare and contrast those solutions? Like, what is the process? Do you have a rubric? Do you have a sheet? Do you have a scorecard? Do you have?

Andy:

like. We need to understand how we're going to be measured, not just that we're going to be measured. You're providing information just based on what you just said with the boss, having used a previous solution, a competitive solution, in a previous role, you're going to want to have that in there. Right, something that speaks to that.

Gary:

There's some recency bias there, so we need to make sure that we're thorough there. We need to make sure that we're thorough there.

Tiana:

Yeah, I wanted to say like going I think it's worth mentioning going deeper into buyer psychology, something that you just said because I wanted to ask.

Tiana:

So like the how, how you do it, because we've talked about like the further steps after you do the buyer recommendations, but the previous steps are actually just doing your homework Right, because one something that I feel like can seal the deal while talking to a salesperson is hearing the confidence in their voice.

Tiana:

So, like, whenever we hear people that are confident, we start to trust them. It's just inevitable and one cannot sound confident about something that we don't know about. So we have to like, like you said in the example that uh, from jen allen knuth, when she could have, could not join the meeting if she didn't know exactly what they did. So just, I don't know how you do this exactly with a competition, maybe even like a mystery shopper or something, so that you strictly know how those conversations go. Because if you can go like that far ahead, so you're not doing anything wrong. You're just getting all the information you can get from everyone in the market and then you just put that in a deliverable where people it's just so easy to compare and contrast, like you were saying, like what would you recommend would be like those conversations so that people can clearly understand, like what they're getting into?

Gary:

Well, it's a great question and, you know, larger companies have enablement teams for that very reason, which is not just building materials but largely training, training on product, training on competitors, what have you? But sometimes even those go astray because they're so inwardly focused on us. And so that is why and we're tapping into last week's podcast is when you start in your discovery process with a firm foundation on helping your team have context, like what does good look, like what is our ideal customer profile, in great amounts of detail, everything under the hood, from a conditions standpoint, from both in attributes and timing Then, as I go through the process, I'm actually revealing that and in my experience, where most companies fail is we talk a lot about those surface level attributes and we talk about how our product and then the problem, and then how our product solved those problems, but we don't get into the okay. But how do I actually go from signing a contract to actually getting value? Yes, like what?

Gary:

How have people done this before? Do they just buy a hundred seats and light up a hundred seats the next day? Do they roll it out in groups? Do they pick certain programs? Do they start? You know, do they have a good, better, best kind of on-ramp? I don't actually know that. And then, if that's the case, what does the company have to do? What capabilities do they need to have to make sure that they can actually do that? And it's in that dynamic that we tend to fall apart and basically throw it over the wall. To well, our onboarding team will help you with that. Well, theoretically that's great, but now it doesn't really provide me any more confidence, because now you've just pushed the fear of the unknown from you down to your onboarding team, whom I'm not even going to talk to until after I signed the contract.

Andy:

Yeah, you don't know who they are.

Gary:

Right.

Andy:

Say they're a bunch of crazy glue sniffers. We don't know a bunch of crazy glue sniffers, we don't know you're on boarding team, great. No, um, you know what I, you know what I know doesn't help. Um, and it was a big thing. For a while we talked about battle cards, which can be, can be just like this is is the, is the check boxes, so you have yourself against all your competitors, and then there's basically features and you know, we have all the checkboxes and then they they're missing checkboxes.

Andy:

It's really only very, very superficially and marginally useful. That is not providing confidence, right, it's mostly you know. It's like, ok, you're showing me, you got all all these things, but I can't put the I can't see what toilet that is Like. I can't put it into that context.

Gary:

Yeah, so the the. I think this. Hopefully that answers your question, but it's it. It. This setup is so important Like to and Andy was hinting at this earlier In order to get to a package recommendation, you yourself need to be confident in the recommendation that you're giving, which means that you have to have done the work beforehand and you have to know what questions to ask and what's required to get to success. It is typically asking only questions A lot of times. What happens and this is why we separate recommendation and pricing is discovery. In most cases is designed to listen for keywords that allow me to pick the pricing plan that maximizes our outcome. That I can justify to you based on what you've told me and put those two things together. Nowhere in there is your buyer's confidence a factor, and that is why you end up with so many deals stalling out to no decision or losing deals because you're not helping your buyer get to confidence.

Andy:

Well, here's an acid test If your sales team is relying on fear, uncertainty and doubt at those moments, at those critical sales moments, where you're trying to scare the buyer into buying, that's a pretty good indicator that you have not created decision competence.

Gary:

Right, yep, exactly Okay, exactly Okay. Well, we um, we'll put some more structure to that, excuse me, as we go through the discovery playbook, um, and, and, as we've said before, we're spending a lot of time on this because it is literally the keystone of go to market, as, as you, as we walk through the process necessary to get to a package, recommendation and understand decision. The unbelievable amount of information that you can reveal from that and the patterns you can reveal from that allow us to more intelligently then manage the process as we go to convert, activate and retain. But it also allows us to take it upstream, to capture an awareness, because these are the things that people are talking or thinking about before they get even to talking to a salesperson. So, the more confidence that we can give them that they're in the right place, that we can help them, that we have a variety of solutions and alternatives and, more importantly, ultimately, what your buyer wants to do is look through your sales process, look on the other side and see themselves getting the impact that we say that we're going to deliver, and they want to have confidence they can do that, not betting the farm, not taking your word for it, but genuine building blocks of confidence that they're going to be able to get there.

Gary:

The sooner we can start that in the process the better, and the way that we get the information to do that is in this discovery process. So that's why we're here. So hope it was helpful. We'll be back next week on the next episode of GTM Pro. Until then, bye. Thank you for tuning in to GTM Pro, where you become the pro. We're here to foster your growth as a revenue leader, offering the insights you need to thrive. For further guidance, visit gtmproco and continue your path to becoming board ready with us. Share this journey, subscribe, engage and elevate your go-to-market skills. Until next time, go be a pro.