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Practical Go-to-Market guidance specifically for B2B software and service companies between $5MM-$50MM in revenue.
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#44: The Ultimate Sales Discovery Framework
What if traditional sales methods are no longer serving you or your clients? In our latest GTM Pro Podcast episode, we unravel the SPICED framework—Situation, Pain, Impact, Critical Event, and Decision—as a transformative tool for sales discovery. Say goodbye to superficial data approaches and hello to a deeper understanding of your clients' macro conditions and unique business models. We promise you'll gain clarity on creating more meaningful sales engagements that build trust and lead to better outcomes.
Welcome to the GTM Pro Podcast, your essential audio resource for mastering go-to-market discussions in the boardroom. Here we share insights for revenue leaders at B2B software and services companies, especially those with less than $50 million in revenue. Why? Because the challenges faced by companies of this size are unique. They are too big to be small and too small to be big. This dynamic pushes revenue leaders into executive leadership without a lot of help or support. We are here to provide that support. Your journey to boardroom excellence starts now. Now, welcome back to GTM Pro. Here we go.
Gary:All right, I'm a little punchy today, doing well, we are going to be in today and talk about the discovery process. It is a critical, especially today. It is critically important component and from our perspective, it's one that has a lot of opinions. There's a lot of quote unquote best practices out there A lot of just every day there's somebody who throws out the 10 questions that you can be asking, but there's rarely do you see any structure to it. So we're going to endeavor to bring a little structure to this process. So this just typically is happening on your first sales call for those organizations that actually have a qualification process. This isn't qualification, this is indeed discovery. So perhaps it's after that stage, perhaps you blend them together, and there are certainly ways to artfully do that, but today we're really focused on the discovery side. So let's dive in a lot of different types of customers, everything from very low dollar, low friction um software products to physical goods to incredibly complex uh, investment banking products to credit cards, to you know, everything in between. Um, that this is a really really good way to think about it. And so what is SPICED?
Gary:Spiced is situation, pain, impact, critical event and decision, and let's start with the top one, situation.
Gary:So, from our perspective, a lot of times when we get into a discovery call, where a lot of companies go awry is they have a script, perhaps they're following Medic or Bant or Spin or whatever and they have a set of questions that are really, frankly, looking for trigger words that a rep can use against the customer to convince them of the value that the product that I have, whereas the real purpose of situation is to seek to understand.
Gary:I need to understand the situation of the company because then, and only then, can I understand the contributing factors to the pain, to the problem. And the challenge with situation is that it's not well defined, like go find out the situation. We have to remember, a lot of times it's business people talking to business people, and by that I mean people with 20 years of experience, who have lived it and been through it. And we've had enough reps, enough laps around the sun that we understand, when we're talking to somebody, the questions to ask so that we can understand the dynamics of the business, because we understand three, seven, ten years of experience and don't necessarily really understand what's going on beside that. So how do we bring some structure to that? That's what we're trying to provide.
Andy:We talk also very much about conditions when we describe ICP. Right, and these things are very correlated, if not the same in some ways. Right, so that ICP is not just a set of firmographic characteristics of a business that determines that you're going to be a good fit for a product because you're in this industry and you have this many employees and this much revenue. We talk much more deeply about figuring out someone's company, their customers, understanding the organizational structure. How many of this type of employee do you have that directly impacts whether or not you might have this particular pain and so on. Right, so those are we use, we almost might use those interchangeably, and so that's, that's just how we think about it.
Gary:Yeah Well, that's exactly where I was going. Next, andy, is that situation is conditions right? And actually, if you go back and listen to our episode with Jen Allen Knuth, she shares a story in her previous career where she had a sales manager who would require that you were not able to share about a situation in the deal review process If you couldn't answer what it is, they did you got kicked out in the answer yeah, you, exact, got kicked out of the meeting.
Gary:Go do your homework. And an example was uh, what do they do? They're in health tech, Like that is not my question, what do they do? And I have personally experienced this. Just last week I was on film review for, uh, some reps and was walking through the whole discovery process and you know how they did and the script and you know, did, did great, very engaging, asked good questions, all of those things. And then we got to the end and the feedback period and I said what do they do? I had no idea. I had no idea what the company did. They had no idea how big it was they had. Well, that's not true. They asked the employee question because that's part of the pricing model, but, yeah, so so we say conditions.
Gary:It is that seek to understand to your point, Andy, it's not not just. Yes, there are some firmographic attributes there that we look for. Hey, we sell to companies between 100 and 1,000 and they have X number of sales reps or HR people or field reps or whatever it is. Whatever our magic metric is, they're in these geographies, they're using these technologies, they're growing. It's like we hear ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Okay, All the things that we think enable them to buy. But we need to take a step further and start with the business. Tell me about your business. What's that dynamic right now? So there's an understanding of the business. What are the macro conditions? What do they sell? To whom do they sell it? How do they sell it? How do they price it? How does the business make money? We have to understand that because then we begin to have some signals of what are the external pressures on this business and opportunities that they may have.
Andy:I would throw one more in also that I think is an interesting dynamic when we talk about, when we go out with educational content right, we have the open to learn, open to change, open to buy, with an additional dynamic of do you have experience in this category of solution? And I think also under.
Gary:Sorry, you're jumping ahead, am I? Yes, but that's okay.
Andy:Because I think it's part of the situation, which is if they, if, if they do or do not, if the individual you're speaking with does or does not have Any experience with something, anything related to this not your product specifically, but anything related or whether the organization might, Yep.
Gary:Yes.
Andy:I apologize.
Gary:You got to the good stuff. It seems to be part of the situation to me you got to the good stuff.
Gary:No, well, it is so and forgive me, andy, you know this the logical waterfall, right, I tend to fall into that. So the first is you know, especially as we think about, how are we informing reps, how do we give them a model, how to do this? Because one of the worst things you can do is provide them a script, because they will follow the script. They will ask the questions, but we need them to think. They will follow the script. They will ask the questions, but we need them to think, we need them to listen and think for those second and third and fourth order questions that really get to what's going on under the hood, that's actually causing the pain. And if we only provide them a script, they will not do that.
Gary:Yeah, so the first is to understand the business. Okay, great. So now tell me a little bit about your department. What are you trying to accomplish? What's the team structure? How do you interact with the other departments? What are the goals of the organization as a whole and how do you fit in to support those goals? And when they start to answer those, don't just take a oh, that was great, thanks, and then move on to the next question. Don't just take a oh, that was great, thanks. And then move on to the next question If you don't understand the why or make an assumption around. For example, a classic is well, we really want to automate this process. Great, okay, we can help you with that. Why do you what? What are you automating exactly? What pieces of the process? What if? If you automate this, what happens? What benefit do you get from that? Then you really understand who. Who would be involved in that automation.
Andy:Yeah Well, people stop oftentimes at at at tech stack, like what's the technographic background of, of this organization, right? So, like, what tools are you using? Often don't get into why, and often don't get into you know how that even came about. What were you trying to do? You know when you, when you started using these tools. But it also gives you the background of savviness, how they talk about that, the tools themselves that they're using. It gives you a little bit of feel for you know, understanding how deep they are into where, ultimately, you could you could, you know engage with that.
Gary:That's actually a really good point, andy, which is this you know we'll get to a minute in what we call experience matching, but it's actually threaded through all of these, especially as you start to get down to the department. Right, you were trying to understand the depth of understanding that they have based on current and previous experience. So then we understand the business as a whole, we understand the department. The next layer down is what we start to get more specific about what is the process or the thing that we do? And tell me about the inputs to that or the desired outputs to that. It could be candidates, it could be, you know, manufacturing flow, it could be design, it could be a whole host of things, right, but it's around. This is more of a jobs to be done mindset, which is what is it you're trying to accomplish? And we begin to understand what is the goal and how have the conditions of the department and the business actually made that harder or created problems that are unique, that we can help solve? So that's that third layer down. And then I think, andy, this is where we get into experience, which is and how are you solving that today? What is that solution? What does it look like. It doesn't necessarily have to be an alternative, ie a direct alternativea competitor to us. It could be spreadsheets, it could be manual, it could be a series of other tech that theoretically solves the problem but doesn't do it to the way that they need, and understanding that with a level of specificity that allows us to see that whole picture. And so now we have the components of conditions, and that, I think, andy, is where we can then go into the experience piece, which is seeking to understand you know what is your level of experience with solving this problem.
Gary:And the reason that's important is it's one thing for the person to be exposed to the problem, it's another to have to manage the problem and it's another to have to implement a solution to solve for the problem. And all of those are critically important because they all go to confidence. Right, if I've lived the problem but I've never used any of the solutions or tools or anything like that, then there is a lot that I need to understand and learn to get to a point of confidence that I can get to the desired outcome, because I haven't done it before. Conversely, if this is the third time I've implemented an enterprise solution to solve a particular problem. I know where all the skeletons are buried, I know all the people that need to be involved, I have a project plan in my head, I know the implementation timeline, I know the quick wins that I want to have, and so I'm in a very different place from a level of confidence perspective. So understanding that spectrum is critically important that spectrum is critically important.
Andy:Well, you know, and to be fair, if we take Spiced at face value and this is no knock on winning by design at all, if we take it at face value it is kind of designed around like how, how can I figure out an in for my thing? How can I figure out an in for my thing, like it's predicated on that, Like how, how, like, how big are you? You know, what do you do? Like how can I, how can I maximize, how can I first of all get the sale and how can I maximize the sale, which I think is a little bit different from what we're trying to approach here. We're trying to really understand the situation, which goes deeper, which goes more into the working environment and so on, as opposed to what's the MVP of what I need to know about you to get a sale and maximize a sale, which is very sales oriented and very understandable and why a lot of people would do that is you're trying to figure out, you know, what are you using today, how you know, how can I, you know, how can I get my battle card out against that product, and so on yeah, this is a little bit, I agree.
Gary:I would say, though, that I don't think that's a winning by design thing. I think it's weaponizing spiced by design thing. I think it's weaponizing Spiced right, because if we flip the script and our whole engine now is reoriented towards decision, confidence and trust in the seller Spiced becomes a very powerful way to do that right. Because, to your point and this, now we're getting into a whole nother you know set of categories, which is so many times the best of intentions. With that guide, we go through a process and we want to get to the best outcome that makes sense for our buyer in that moment, so that they have confidence and trust, and then we incentivize our reps the opposite.
Andy:Yep.
Gary:Yeah, right, swing for the fences. Yeah, and because if you don't and they start small, then you just lost out on the commission opportunity and all of that future revenue goes to the expansion team or the account management team or the CSM team.
Andy:I would. But I would just say, reading what winning by design says about it at face value, it is oriented toward the salesperson. So, literally, quoting them right, determine whether the prospect is a good fit for your solution. That's, that's literally what they're saying. This situation is predicated on determining the situation is predicated on and I would just simply say we're, we're flipping that a little bit to say is this good for the buyer? It's, it's yeah, good point. It could, you, could, you could, you could conflate the two, but I think it's a little bit different where it's like you're, where it's like it maybe is more a little bit pre-weaponized vis-a-vis the pure framework versus how we're suggesting using it.
Gary:Yeah, yeah, I see your point. Take the mindset of enabling the buyer to buy versus selling right Yep versus selling right Yep. So so now to your point. Now, now we have those conditions and we understand the experience of the buyer, um, and and also we can get insight. It's it's too early to jump to decision process. You'll know that's the D in Spiced at the end.
Gary:But we can begin to understand the relationship between the departments, what sometimes we call shadow buyers. So there's direct users. There are other stakeholders that are either customers of or recipients of the output of, whatever it is we sell, and there are others that need to be involved in order to get the job done, in order to be successful. And if we go in and we understand how they're solving the problem of the day, who's involved, we understand, you know. Then we begin to understand who is the champion, who are the end users and who are the shadow buyers. So our ICP work, we try to break those out pretty specifically, but when we're in this discovery process, we're exploring all of those kind of simultaneously through this situation question, but by doing that in a manner that is structured for the rep, that says and makes sense honestly for the recipient Like and, by the way, starting with so tell me about your business, is inferior to. So I've done some research and I see that you're in this space of this size and saw these announcements. It looks like you're growing, launching these products, doing these things you know. That's really interesting, tell me about. Can you tell me more about the business? It shows that you've done some work and that you're seeking to understand.
Gary:Then it becomes a conversation. People love to talk about themselves, and if they feel like you're adding value in that conversation, it won't feel like an interrogation. So providing that structure for our reps is really critical. So, then, the beauty of doing all that work from the condition standpoint is that we can actually, based on our previous experience with customers who fit into that profile, can begin to proactively predict what we believe their problems are going to be and therefore bring credibility, which is going to amp up trust.
Gary:So we could instantly ask, of course so what pain points are you trying to solve for? Or we could ask so, given that you're here trying to do these things and this is your structure and this is the group you have to work with, I'm going to guess, based on what we know from other customers that you're dealing with this with. I'm going to guess, based on what we know from other customers, that you're dealing with this, this and this, and not so much here, but definitely here You're going to. Now you've opened up the door for them to talk about it. You're not. Again, it's a conversation, it's not an interrogation.
Andy:It's almost always going to be better than leaving it broad, for two reasons. First of all, because you're talking about a specific situation that they can grab onto, like you just talked about, gary. Right, if they're engaged in that way, they're already down that path. They're like, oh wow, we're like pretty deep in my life already and then, even if you get it wrong, you get the credit for having done that Right. And then why wouldn't you talk about that already down that path where your product is going to help, again informed by what you believe you already know about them. But why wouldn't you talk about that? Because if it's, if it is wrong, then your product may not be a good fit. So, like it just always makes sense to stick your neck out a little bit and try and go deeper there.
Gary:Yes, exactly. And then and the benefit of that now we get into that problem statement is we understand the conditions that are creating the problem. We have a desired outcome. And problems don't list, don't exist in isolation, right, they exist because of the conditions in which we live. It's because we have a lean, decentralized team, it's because we have these aggressive growth goals, it's because we're launching new factories, facilities, locations, it's because we are distributed versus centralized, it's because we're coming back to the office, it's because we sell to the enterprise, like those are the reasons why we have the problems. So if we don't understand those, then we're never going to thoroughly understand the problem and the severity of it.
Gary:And and this is another part of getting to decision confidence is a lot of times, especially in more mature categories people may already have solutions or they've had previous experience with those solutions.
Gary:They come into the conversation and they prescribe the solution when they actually haven't really vetted out the problem, and so this is our opportunity, especially as we think about the differentiated value of our solution, to be able to tie it back to business impact. This is why these are so important and how this all fits together. So we're helping them gain confidence by reaffirming or guiding them to a confidence that they've completely defined the problem correctly. Sometimes what will happen is I come into your solution and I think I've just defined it correctly, and then I go to the next conversation and they present something a little bit different. And suddenly I'm like, oh wait, have I actually thought about this the right way? And so now I got to back up the truck beep, beep, beep and go back to the beginning and now really look at the problem, which may introduce a whole new category of solutions, and guess what that does to confidence Pew Right Down the drain.
Andy:Because now I don't know.
Gary:I'm like, oh crap, I thought I had this figured out and now I don't.
Andy:You know what else you just described, which has come up on various conversations the buyer journey is not linear, like you just went back to square one, at least for a good chunk of what you're thinking about there. You're not following this path of you know.
Gary:now I'm getting into selection Now no selection and meanwhile they're not going to share that with us. They're not going to come back and say oh yeah, sales rep, I realized that I wasn't properly defining the problem and I need to do some additional research. And can you help me with that? They're just going to ghost you Checking in. How was it going?
Andy:Just wanted to get a heads up like, oh worse, we have a discount coming up you know if you can sign by the end of the month, because we haven't validated that they understand the problem. Yeah, fear, uncertainty and doubt does not help there.
Gary:Yes, and it also goes to then the capability prioritization, which is another part of decision.
Gary:Confidence, right Is that if this is your desired outcome, this is your problem and these are the conditions that create the problem. I now have a better feel for exactly the capabilities that you need out of the tool and in mature markets where you have a lot of other players, or even in earlier markets where there's kind of a new way to think about solving the problem, there is everybody's going to have everybody's got the same 80% of the features and the other 20% are just scattered all over the place and they're a little bit different. And so if we're not careful in helping them understand and helping them prioritize the capabilities that they need, we'll end up in a feature war and it's like, well, they have this feature and you have this feature, and the features are irrelevant, like what is it? How do they come together to help you solve the core of the problem? And is that the most important thing that you can have? And so that, again, bringing it all back to the problem, which is why it's so important to validate that.
Andy:Well, I know I'm jumping ahead now in terms of the selling process, but you can see where this is leading to, instead of leaving it up to the buyer to figure out a lot of things. So, based on situations I've seen like yours, I would recommend the following you can see how this is leading to. That's a much better place to be in in you know, as a, as a sales process, as a sales pitch, than saying, like we do all these things. You figure out how that works for you, as opposed to you're actually tying. I recommend this for situations I've seen exactly like yours and be articulate about what you just learned in this situation to say we've solved that and I recommend this, I recommend this package, et cetera. You can see how that leads to that and leading to confidence in that way.
Gary:Well, it really. And that's the bridge to impact, right? That's because we find a lot of times that there are solutions in place where we hear this all the time save time, saves time. Well, that's not a business impact. What do I do with the time that I've saved? And while that might make my life more convenient, the last thing that the business as a whole wants to know is that they have excess capacity in their system because we just automated something to save you time Great. How are you redeploying that time to do something with it, to add an impact to the business? So, the more that we understand the problem and the implications on the business of not solving the problem, now we have the ability to tie to impact, which is exactly that versus.
Gary:Oh. That's why it's so dangerous to take the prescribed solution. That the well. We're looking for a tool that can do X, y and Z and has these features. If you fall into that bait, then you have opened yourself up to feature vomit and feature war, and it's very difficult to tie that back to impact. And so now I'm just well, yes, our tool does that. It's A, b and C. Well, but we've never taken the next step to and this is how this will impact your business. So that's the turning of the key there.
Andy:To get to that, I also think and I know I'm jumping ahead again, but just to kind of I like referencing the future aspects of this too, because I think it solidifies what we're talking about with this. But that random example and I can't remember if this was in the jolt effect, but when somebody was talking about I would if the train is late. If the train is late, that's bad, Like nobody likes that. But it is better when you have a sign up at the stop that says when the next train is going to be there and to a certain extent that's also what you're trying to foreshadow with a buyer here as well. It's like what are you going to need to do here?
Andy:what are you going to need to do here? And in order to convey that, first of all you need to know experience again, jumping ahead there. But also this is what a typical process looks like for this. We're just talking about solar, about something totally different Solar in the residential world, the biggest thing there is people don't know all the ins and outs of, like tax implications and do I need to get my you know, the architectural review board to approve this and like what are all these pieces? How do I finance this? I heard I don't even need to pay anything up front for it. You can just like take it out of what I would have been need to pay anything up front for it. You can just take it out of what I would have been paying to the utility and all this stuff. Just knowing that, just knowing those things up front is it facilitates being willing to buy it.
Gary:Yep, absolutely Okay. So we so now with that, that's so let's just reinforce that for a minute how powerful the pieces coming together are and how it accelerates the conversation and the process. One builds on the other. It's not like it's a series where we just check through. It is literally building blocks, like at the core is the essence by situation, because that drives everything. It determines the pain right. So now we understand the pain. The pain drives to impact based on the situation that we've seen as well. Now we're getting to an understanding where we can begin to thoughtfully position our tool for the to to lead to impact.
Gary:Um, and so there's certainly a process in there and we'll we'll cover the, the connection of the differentiated value that we bring to connected to impact, in a separate conversation, because that is another, probably 45 minute plus conversation and an important one. But at its core it is. It is not about features. It is about often the collection of features that come together to deliver a capability that helps solve the problem, that deliver that business impact value. If you're in a lower dollar, like get to a one call close, frankly, you don't have time to go through an end to end demo, nor should you, because a lot of that, a lot of those questions should be answered before they even get to the sales call. This is the opportunity, in a one-on-one manner, to be able to connect your differentiated value, what sets you apart relative to them, so they feel like I'm in the right place, they've listened to me, I feel more confident about the problem. I understand how these things come together. The whole goal is to build that confidence here.
Gary:Then now we start to get to understanding critical event, which we honestly can do early in the conversation, throughout the conversation and even towards the end of the conversation. But that is, we need to understand are they kicking tires or is there a ticking clock? And if I miss the ticking clock, if I miss that deadline, what is the impact to the business? The renewal of a competing product isn't a ticking clock, because a very easy choice in fact the easiest choice is to just renew and keep doing what I'm doing.
Gary:What is the business impact associated with doing that? That's the critical event. And then we begin to understand how painful would it be for them to do a renewal versus actually going through the pain of switching. So that's why that critical event is so powerful, because now we can understand the urgency, how we're going to deploy our resources, go forward, what needs to happen next, what information that they need and the sense of timing around that, how we can work backwards from that critical event. Because in enabling the buyer and helping them get to confidence, we need to understand what is our timeline and work backwards from that timeline.
Andy:That's like the train or solar example. Right Is knowing a renewal's coming, knowing a competitor and ideally you have actually done a rip and replace with that competitor and you actually can articulate what goes into a rip and replace with a competitor. It may not be pretty, it may not even be that easy, but you can show what needs to be done so that they know and you can work backwards and you can say, okay, well, if you're going to do this, you know this is a good time to start looking at the data that you need to gather up and the database that we're going to need to like transition over. This is a framework for it. We've done it before, right, so there's you can. You can inject elements of confidence along the way and honestly articulating in a way that shows it isn't that easy does instill confidence and trust because they know you've been there and they know it's like you know, you're not just saying oh, it's easy.
Andy:You know it's like do it in your sleep.
Gary:Couldn't agree more. I think that that piece of it and honestly that could be part of your differentiating value is that we understand that this migration is very difficult. So we provide you this sets of services and we have a project management team, and so we're going to help you through this so that we want the. The goal sales world is not the signing of a contract, the goal. That is one step on the path to getting to the customer at a moment of value, if we think about it from the buyer's perspective.
Gary:So the more that we can ensure them that they will get to this moment of value and validate that, the more confidence they will have and the higher the probability that they will A move forward with the deal at all and pick you, especially if that timeline is delivered in such a way that is agnostic to your solution, like, look, regardless of what you decide to do, I'll tell you how we do it. But regardless of what you decide to do, here are the steps you're going to need to take in order for this to be successful, in order for you to to be confident that whatever you decide is going to get there. Now let me tell you about how we do it to make sure that we support you in that journey and that's and even if it's product led, there could be a whole wealth of information around how we help you get there, to make sure that you've got the value. So you're not trying to figure it out on your own. We don't want to give you a job to go do that, yeah, that's the worst.
Andy:The worst is being given a job when you're paying for something.
Gary:That's the worst. The worst is being given a job when you're paying for something. Work for me. And then, lastly, lastly, the D is decision, and that is the decision process. And here again it's easy to go straight to. Well, you know when are you going to make your decision and who's involved, and but what we really want to understand is, if we go on the other side, like, well, who was involved, but also what is the process? So, if they're looking at other solutions, which we should ask and know, because we've had this discussion actually earlier in the solution landscape, is that we want to understand, okay, well, it sounds like you're looking at a variety of options. Let's talk about who those are and then giving them some context for what that looks like.
Gary:It is not uncommon in this world of multiple solutions, and especially in many cases for point solutions, in many cases for point solutions, the companies that are our partners or frenemies who also offer something similar, to compare and contrast. Well, there's a lot of different ways to solve this and you're looking at, actually, three different buckets in the way to solve this. It's very hard to compare and contrast when they're in three different buckets versus they're looking at two or three competitors all in the same bucket, and that's part of what we want. Need to understand is like well, how are you going to evaluate these then?
Gary:Do you have a plan? Do you have a rubric? Is there a score? Who's involved and when? It's done in the manner of? I am doing this ideally because I can provide you some information that will help bring structure to that, but I'm doing this as a way to help you get to a confident decision. Then you're going to get a lot more information and understanding that decision process, who needs to be involved, the timing of it and what information you can provide to help support that. So, again, it's seek to understand.
Andy:Yeah, I mean, I think you just hit on something really important too, which is not almost like belittling that buyer for comparing three different products that are in pretty different buckets. It's tempting to kind of almost why would you do that? Yeah, it is. It's tempting almost to kind of make fun of that in so many words.
Andy:But talk about a situation where they're going to shut down because they're like okay, now I feel stupid and now I need to go back to square one because I'm comparing these disparate solutions when, if you can position it in a way that you know, we look at it like this. You know this might be helpful for you to. You know and I don't mean to script that, but like you can imagine a situation where it's much softer and, you know, actually use it as an opportunity to help educate, to build trust, to build confidence as opposed to the fear, uncertainty and doubt, which is, well, that doesn't make sense at all, like for these reasons, and then you just threw them off and they're going to shut down. So that's a very critical moment, I think, in that, especially if they're looking at things that might not make sense to look at against one another might not make sense to look at against one another.
Gary:Yep, yep, absolutely so. There you have it, the discovery process. But I think the spiced framework is very helpful, but the making that, uh, not leaving that with a list of questions, that is a script, but actually providing some structure for the elements, the, the ingredients for what we need to understand in order to get to situation, and then pain and then impact. Um, really, one builds on the other. If you do it, do it well and do it right, and that's what we endeavor to put that together and provide a rubric for that, so that you're, you can actually now, instead of so often we get into, we see somebody who does great discovery. I'm like, everybody needs to do discovery like they do. I'm like, well, that's impossible, that's impossible to clone with any. It's because everybody's different and, frankly, then what you end up with is robots who aren't thinking, they're just trying to do somebody else's process. So we need to create structure throughout the discovery process so that your reps can be creative, can be intellectually curious, can do their own thinking, but done so with a guide, a structure that gets them to the right place and helps them be able to navigate all the nuances associated with dealing with customers and that we will put on GTM Pro. So, if you haven't already subscribed, check out gtmproco and we'll be putting this together in our weekly shorts, which we send out every week that's why they're called weekly and you'll get a lot of information there as well.
Gary:We good All right, everybody. Thanks for tuning in. Until next week, bye, bye, until next week, bye. Thank you for tuning in to GTM Pro, where you become the pro. We're here to foster your growth as a revenue leader, offering the insights you need to thrive. For further guidance, visit gtmproco and continue your path to becoming board ready with us. Share this journey, subscribe, engage and elevate your go-to-market skills. Until next time, go be a pro.