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#22: Marketing Maven's Blueprint: Engine Revving Strategies for B2B Success Under $50M

• Gary, Andy & Tiana • Season 1 • Episode 21

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Happy Friday PROs!

Unlock the secrets to constructing a powerhouse marketing team in the B2B software and service industry with our latest podcast episode.

We will go through the intricate maze of marketing essentials, crucial for companies striving under the $50 million mark.

Inspired by marketing maven Emily Kramer, whose 'fuel and engine' analogy offers a groundbreaking perspective on how to rev up your marketing strategy right from the ground up.

This episode targets systems thinking and the value creation formula necessary to accelerate your Marketing company's growth.

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Gary:

Welcome to the GTM Pro Podcast, your essential audio resource for mastering go-to-market discussions in the boardroom. Here we share insights for revenue leaders at B2B software and services companies, especially those with less than $50 million in revenue. Why? Because the challenges faced by companies of this size are unique. They are too big to be small and too small to be big. This dynamic pushes revenue leaders into executive leadership without a lot of help or support. We are here to provide that support. Your journey to boardroom excellence starts now. Now, okay, let's get started. Welcome back everybody. We have.

Gary:

There's been a lot of talk Actually, I think this is really a function of what we're seeing in the market regarding the definition of marketing and specifically how marketing organizations should be structured, and especially in light of what we're feeling and certainly hearing regarding performance marketing, demand, gen, brand marketing, all of these things that presumably we all know what they mean, but it's becoming very obvious that these are what we call polluted terms, in that if you ask 10 people what each one of them mean, you'll get similar definitions, but different enough that they have pretty big implications for companies, especially those that are trying to think about what their structure should look like.

Gary:

So we are going to endeavor in the next handful of minutes to do what we're going to call zero-based build of the marketing function, and it's a little bit different approach and it really is from through the lens of systems thinking, which is holistically across the go-to-market engine, the value creation formula for an enterprise and what functions and capabilities are needed in order to be successful. So, before we dive in Andy or Tiana, any words of wisdom.

Andy:

Before we dive in Andy or Tiana, any words of wisdom before we buckle up and get in here, we are going to cheat a little bit as we get to do, given what we do for a living, which is we join companies and work with them after they've already established product market fit. They've already gotten some revenue in the door, they already have customers who are getting value from what they do. So that's cheating a little bit because we come in there. That's our entry point Hopefully your entry point into this conversation which is that's where we'll do zero-based marketing, team buildup, if you will, or marketing function buildup. We should say, but we're there, so we're not starting from scratch, we're not starting from no product market fit, pure startup. That's a different animal altogether. So that's the caveat.

Gary:

That is a really great point. I wouldn't call that cheating, I would call that setting context. And you're absolutely right and I should have mentioned that. So, for those that haven't listened before and this is your first toe in the water, at GTM Pro, we're focused exclusively on companies in the lower middle market, which are those between five and 50 million in revenue, typically self-funded or private equity backed. So these are going to be running different playbooks than the hyper growth VC that could be at a similar size, and certainly different playbooks than those that are larger scale. We actually had a podcast last week on that very topic. So check it out or go to GTMProco and subscribe today. So my best radio voice, okay. So we're going to give props to really love. Call it a first principles thinker.

Gary:

Market One, the team at Market One, emily Kramer, and she has this heuristic, if you will, for marketing, that is, let's boil it down and keep it simple. It's fuel and engine, and the way she describes fuel is that's the content, design slash, message for your target customer. And then the engine is distribution and operations. We love this because it simplifies the thought and goes back to basics. We're going to expand on that and maybe modify a little bit. For us, there's two important themes that are missing here, because we want to come at it not from marketers speaking to marketers, but really more as business people thinking about the structure of the organization and as a CEO and allocation of resources. And with that in mind, the problem with the word content is that a marketer thinks of it most frequently as an asset, a thing you know some words on a paper, a paper in air, quotes, a video, an audio clip, an ebook, whatever it's an asset, right, that's content. And on the distribution side, we certainly have distributing that message across various channels and the operations of the technical tools necessary to do so processes as well. But what's also missing in that is measurement. So that would be our modification there.

Gary:

So throw that in there, but taking a step back and we think about content, we would actually go up a level and think about core pillar thought framework, super specific definition of your customer whom you serve, and to do that you need to, frankly, an intense amount of research, which most companies of this size have been at it for five, 10 years.

Gary:

The founders have a lot of domain knowledge, but it's been diluted over time down through the organization because inevitably there's been people in and out it's been a bit of a revolving door people through the organization, and so that's a really important part is we have to start there. Then we're creating think of it almost like a textbook for the problems that your target market has in the curriculum that you would design. That's where we need to start, so that content is. Think of it like a research paper that you would put together so that you're hitting on the core themes symptoms, problems, solutions, alternatives, implementation all that go around your product and what you're trying to solve and you have deep insights, whether that be research or shared experiences or feedback from your customers or what have you that you in turn can now take back and share with your customers. So that's up a level from content is where we would start, and then we can talk about how that would apply across as we start to build the engine.

Andy:

You just need to get away from tactics really at that point, right. So it's content with a capital C, it's covering really all potential phases of a buyer's journey, and so what is most applicable to them at whatever point that they're entering, and being able to just really understand that and that's the starting point is understanding where they're at, understanding what they need where they're at, and having at least those things somewhere.

Gary:

Yeah, and related to that too, is where they go to find this information. Like, we need to know that as well. What are the areas and the resources on which they rely in order to find information? Because that's going to inform where we need to be. And I think you know you talked about content with a capital C, I think taking a step back when we say marketing, the minute we say marketing, that in and of itself is a loaded term, because every one of us, when we hear that term, has a picture on our head of what that means, and it's informed by what we read, our previous experiences what have you? And it's informed by what we read, our previous experiences what have you?

Gary:

And what we're advocating is acknowledge that park, that let's start from the zero, build from the ground up. Let's build this function on the basis of what we need, because we immediately go to oh, I need a content marketer, I need a product marketer, and even those terms have polluted meaning. So let's not label it yet, let's talk about what we need. So that's really the first step. So we have these core themes. Now we need to think about well, what is it we are trying to accomplish for the benefit of our buyer. So let's start with top of funnel. What are we trying to do there? Um, another loaded term. Well, in many ways it's awareness, it's brand, it's getting into the mind of our future buyer. Right, these are people, people at companies who are prospectively targets or, in theory, on paper, could get immense value from our product. And so that's our audience and what we are ultimately trying to do. We can't go to them at that stage and necessarily and say we're trying to sell our product. We really need to start the relationship.

Gary:

And so starting the relationship means what? At that phase, it could be that you actually are, you're very familiar with the problem and you're having that problem. You just haven't chosen. You've just chosen not to yet solve it. Or you're feeling the symptoms, or you're blissfully ignorant and you don't know it yet. But as you grow, you're going to run into these problems.

Gary:

But in any case, we have to find a way to start the relationship. That's more important than ever because for companies in the lower middle market, it is very likely that you have 30, 70, hundreds of alternatives in your particular category. And when not if, but when that person or this organization gets to a point where they start to want to seek solutions. They are by no means going to go through 100 solutions. They're going to pick three, maybe five, and so if we are waiting until that point to try to influence that discussion, then we are really late. And that's exceptionally hard when there's the 800-pound gorilla, the category leader, that is 100 times our size and has all the gravitational pull in the market. How are we standing out? So the first step is to start the relationship.

Tiana:

Yeah, and get close to them, like actually being in front of them and being the channels where they're at, so that they can acknowledge that you're there.

Tiana:

And just the way of speaking is truly important. Like imagine you're not even problem aware and you're looking for a solution and they kind of taunt to the symptoms that you're already feeling. Then that's where you get your attention, that's where people actually start to listen to you or to pay attention to you and to your solution and start looking at you as an option. Because, as you said, there's no way no one's going through 100, 100 options. They're just going to go to the ones that are that they are more exposed to and that they relate to the most with what they can see. So don't make it too complicated for them to understand what you're actually achieving with them. Like it's well, like you well, we always say, like, make it easier for the buyer to buy, right, but first actually tell them what you're good at and why you would be good for them. Don't start at the selling point. Start actually attacking to what they're feeling and what they're thinking.

Gary:

Right, and so, as we think about what information at that stage, then we can start to peel it down to okay, well, what is the medium by which we start this relationship?

Gary:

Start and sustain the relationship? There's a lot of talk about the need to have first-party data, which is part of why you hear this whole movement to quote, become a media company, because, ultimately, what we're trying to do there is we're trying to start and maintain a relationship that is outside of a buying cycle. We just want to see you that we are a resource for you, for people, for our target market of buyers in helping them navigate the challenges that they have every day, and so that's the mindset and that's when we can start to really think through how we do that. Now, before we start solving for that, we need to go to the other, what we call zones, buyer zones and determine what's needed there, because we don't have the luxury to set up a start the relationship team and have them do nothing but that the whole. The holy grail for the lower middle market is for compound effort, right, it is is, you know, invest once and distribute many, ideally what do you have in common?

Andy:

Like so, when you start a relationship, friendship, right, a lot of times it's like what do you have in common? And then you start talking and you tell stories and you're like, oh my, I do that too and all that sort of thing, right? So both ways, what do you have in common as a company with that prospect? And what do your customers have in common with that prospect? I don't love the term prospect, but for argument's sake, right, so someone who's out there you're telling a story to, you're showing them a situation that they're gonna find something in common with. I think that's probably the best approach there. And then that carries on to deepening a relationship and so on, as we go through these steps, so to speak, at their own pace, because it's all about the buyer right throughout all of this, which is what are the commonalities? What are the commonalities you might have with someone who derives high value from a relationship with me?

Gary:

Right, yeah, I like the real world relationship analogy, where you meet somebody for the first time because you're connected and you find that common ground and that's what creates that connection right, because there's a shared experience there. That's a really good observation and that also, then, is a perfect segue to the next zone, which is deepening the relationship. So, once we've established the relationship, the way that we are deepening the relationship is like you get me, you are speaking to what I need to know. I want to learn more, because the value that I've received from you so far is helpful and I see that you have other ways for me to engage, whether that's webinars on LinkedIn, whatever the mediums are. Again, we don't want to jump immediately to solving for it, but how do we then take you from a 101 layer to a 201, 301 layer so that we can deepen that relationship and we become even more trusted in that manner? That is the pull that we want to create in that situation doesn't mean that we're accelerating you into a buying cycle. It just means that we are moving up the meter on the trust scale because we're trying to deepen that relationship. So, as we are helping you think through all the implications of defining and ways to solve the problem. Then we start to be able to earn the right to introduce and here's specifically how we can help you solve that and why we believe we're one of the better choices.

Gary:

But in the past, most organizations in the lower middle market because they have been capital efficient they've grown through capitalfficient means, either self-funded or small, friends and family fundraisers, or even small VC-backed fundraisers debt capital what have you that? They've had to be very thoughtful about how they grow. That tends to lead them to be sales-led, because they need revenue to grow and so they don't have the luxury to start with a $9.99 a month or free, grow a big base and then go for the most part. So we can't. In today's world, the buyer doesn't want to wait to talk to a salesperson in order to see is this solution actually right for me?

Gary:

Because, by the way, there are 50 other providers in the category and they are all saying the same thing. They all say they solve the same problems. They all say they're best in class. They all proudly parade their G2 badges up there. They all look the same to me. So how do I parse through that? And the way to do that is we have to get specific with what our point of view is, how we solve for it, and show that to them. Show it.

Andy:

I mean, show it right, like I. I think more and more this is an opinion, but I think there's some evidence of it right is that if you aren't showing the product and you aren't showing your pricing, you automatically lose a swath of people just because they're like you know what I'm all about? Ease, ease of everything, ease of ease of buying, ease of use, ease of ownership and all of that implementation, right? So if you aren't showing me that, like this is easy to use, this is easy to to get going on and this is how much it's going to cost you, this is easy to get going on and this is how much it's going to cost You're automatically going to lose some of those people.

Tiana:

It's true, I feel like some people's mindset when they're starting to look at different solutions that they'd like to obtain. They're thinking why would I want to go through all the trouble of learning what the product does and how it works and and what features it has, and what do I have to do with it for it to work for me? And like at the end of it, imagine it's not even on my price range and like I don't even have the budget for it. So why go through all that trouble if I don't even know if I can afford it or not?

Gary:

yeah, well.

Gary:

And related to that too, as we see this all the time is. We have sales teams taking demos where they know in the I go test if this is a fit or not is to take the most expensive, least scalable resource, that we have a salesperson and ask them to go through the product or ask a few questions, or we have people that bomb out through the process because they don't even make it to the demo stage. So really being specific and leaning into that is valuable from that perspective as well, because, again, what we're really trying to do is drive a really efficient engine so that every resource is utilized to its highest and best use, and running through five out of 10 demos where it's just a bad fit and they can't afford it and now we're trying to position value, is not a good use of that resources time.

Andy:

Yeah, and that's why the zones are optimal for really all situations, because, first of all, you can see what's taking place kind of at each of those zones and it's kind of crazy to think. But someone can go from not knowing you right to saying I am a pretty good fit here and I want to talk to sales in a fairly short period of time Because you've conveyed all that in a way that they can consume and they can find that common ground and they can find that they're a fit pretty quickly. Now we do see companies trying to do that. More often than not they're set up to say, okay, I'm going to start a relationship and try and get somebody on a call right away. We're not suggesting you do that right, we're saying it could happen.

Andy:

Sometimes these are very, very long cycles of people like you know the whole nurture thing right. You're starting a relationship and they're using you as a resource and then when the time comes, you're on their short list. That's a way this can occur, but it can happen quickly too. So if you're set up well in each of those zones to convey the right sort of information when the person is ready to consume that and it tells them what they need to know, to know that they're really on the right track for solving this thing that they have. Then you have the potential to have a deal close very quickly from the point that they barely know you.

Gary:

Right. Well, so back to the zones. Then the demo experience can actually be broken out into. When it comes time for me to say you know, this does look like a fit for me, and now I really want to talk to somebody so I can get into the nuance of my specific situation. If self-service isn't the right fit for me, if that's even an option, and therefore we now want to understand what is the information that they need at that point, the point that they're thinking about asking for help, asking for guidance, request a demo, talk to sales but we really want that to be perceived as less about a sales discussion and more about I have some specific questions about this tool.

Gary:

I think it's a good fit and I want to talk to somebody who's knowledgeable that can help me through this. Then what happens between the time that they say, hey, let's talk to them, actually getting on the phone there's no reason now that we can't and should provide more information there. What do they need at that point in time? How do we make this very important time for both most importantly, for the buyer and for us to maximize the output? What are the things that we can provide them in advance that are table stakes. Why are we spending the very valuable time in the call doing table stake stuff when we can do that earlier?

Andy:

Not only providing them stuff, but also gathering information about them, because that stuff's more and more we just were talking about all these different great data sources that are coming up all the time with ai capabilities is now, then, getting that information about that prospective customer that's now asked to you know, see a demo, and knowing something about them that very much relates to others that are doing well with the product right? So you have the capability and power now to match that even better than you ever have prior to having that conversation, so that you can come in and really talk about a scenario that's very relevant for them and take a little bit of a stand on that, even as opposed to feature vomit, which we always talk about, like I'm going to try and cover everything because I don't know what's going to be the right fit. Now you can say you know what, this is probably what you're thinking here, and then you'll start hearing the yeah, yeah, you know. Yep, that's exactly what I'm thinking, and find that very quickly and you're on a much better track.

Gary:

Yep, yeah. Then it becomes a more tailored presentation, q&a, exploration on both sides. Then we have, once that happens, what happens after the call. So many times we don't sufficiently arm our champion to be able to go into the organization. Sometimes the champion is the budget holder and they can make that decision. That's fine. How do we make it easy for them to do that?

Gary:

More often than not, our champion has to involve others in the decision, either because of budget or procurement policies, legal security, what have you and we need to make it easy for them to be an advocate on our behalf to do that. And so there's a set of information that they're going to need there. Then we get into onboarding, and what is the continuation of that experience? Then we get into post-onboarding, and now we're in the activation phase, as we've been thinking about expansion. So we just talked about the entire, and then even advocacy beyond that, moving from just being a customer to being an advocate. We just talked about the entire revenue stream, from top to bottom, and in every case, marketing is involved.

Gary:

And so that's the point in today's world of thinking zero-based, which is at its core we need to be a fundamental resource for our buyers, for the problem that we seek to solve within that market.

Gary:

That's how we start the relationship, that's how we garner trust, that's how, throughout the process, we show ourselves as being an advocate for them and a resource for them. So that's the most important piece. Then we have to think through okay, now we have to communicate how our product aligns with that problem. So this is where we have talked in the past about a problem marketer who could be a content marketer and a product marketer who is more specifically tying together those core components of the application to fit those together. Notice, we haven't gotten the distribution yet. We're talking about what is the information that we need to provide and how do we do that? Now we need to think about where are the commonalities across every one of those steps. Is there a way where we can lean into one, three, five themes and really go deep on those themes because they're valuable to our buyer and very consistent with our approach, that we have now a fountain of content with a little c that can be distributed across all of those zones and we're not recreating the wheel and producing multiple pieces?

Andy:

we're coming off core themes I think an important thing to take a quick step back on and just reflect on what you just said is the repeatability of what that enables. Right, so, as opposed to and listeners probably are familiar with sales heroics right, where they're, you know, they're getting leads, they're getting demand from a variety of places and they're just making it happen to your point you said earlier, right, they, they know after five minutes. It's not a great fit. They still are probably closing some of those sales, right, because they're really good at that. But what you just described, when done well, enables a much more sustainable, scalable engine for getting the right people to kind of see the light. Right, and that changes that dynamic, especially when it comes to when sales finally gets a customer on the line. It's a much different conversation, right, and that's what this is enabling Much more scalable, much more sustainable, if you really look at it that way.

Gary:

And that is such a critical point, andy, because, again, in the lower middle market, we don't have the luxury. It's amazing If you look at the difference. We just did a post on this. It's amazing If you look at the difference we just did a post on this. You can check it out on GTM Pro. The difference between a $10 to $20 million company and a $50 million company in terms of capabilities and capacity is incredible.

Gary:

And so often we will borrow what we see from our larger brethren and try to replicate that.

Gary:

But the point that you just made is we don't have the luxury of having specialists in various teams, nor do we have depth in those specialties, and so it is all about orchestration and prioritization. And so it is all about orchestration and prioritization. And so, as we think about marketing, that's why, in this case, now that we're in a changed really a changed environment, where our buyers the last thing that they want to do is talk to sales, they want to gather their information from wherever they trust number one, and from a variety of different places, the most more often than not, the places that to which they turn to get this information. We can't measure. It's another platform, it's a community, it's word of mouth, it's emails amongst friends or what have you. So now we're in this world where a majority of the decision-making process is dark to us. We have to be very thoughtful about how we are leveraging those resources so that we can get repeatability and scalability, because we can't afford to have discrete teams out.

Andy:

We just we don't budget for it, we don't have it that just popped into my head, though is is a potential pitfall, right, which is. Well, then I'll just be really broad. Like you know, I'll just try and cover a lot of ground, and that's the rock on the heart place here, a little bit in the lower middle market, is I can't be broad because then I'm noise, and when you're trying to play that game, you lose to the, to the big players, the big brands, and so on. Right, you have to be specific about what you do well and how you address a specific segment's problems, and so on. So you have to be really good at detecting what that is.

Gary:

Yeah, yeah, that's a really, really good point. Then that's the fuel side of it, right, as Emily Kramer pointed out earlier, as we pointed out earlier, that's the content, the design, the message, what are we saying, the themes that we have, and then what are we actually doing. But then the yin and the yang of that is the distribution, because the content, the asset that we distribute, will be impacted by the medium over which we distribute it. And so this is where having capabilities around understanding what people are preferring, the types of mediums they want to, it is the combination of the channels, right, that's how we get to these 7, 8, 15, 30 touch points, as Bill Masaitis said several podcast episodes ago, that it really takes to before you even become a lead and then, even after that, before you come an opportunity.

Andy:

it's going to happen through a multi-channel approach, but they can't be disconnected, because then there's no flywheel effect of getting a person to deepen the relationship, move through their thought, the same thing in a number of different ways, and contextualized, of course, for where somebody may be, but you say the same thing because, first of all, all bets are off as far as them actually being able to receive that message right, because of everything going on in everybody's, like the, the, the pitfall there is I think everybody's going to see everything I ever put out there, which is obviously ridiculous. Again, that homework to really understand what makes a positive customer experience and a sticky customer and so on, and what really drives that projecting that out into the world in a very specific way pays dividends at all points of the buyer journey. And, again, you need to get it out there as often as possible because you never know when it's going to resonate.

Gary:

Yes, yeah, actually, the point that you made regarding getting it out there made me think of the more recently LinkedIn as an example, the more recently LinkedIn as an example being the death of the follower, which is even people who are following your content maybe 20% of them are actually seeing it because the algorithm serves the platform. It does not serve you, and so that's another example of why you feel like you're repeating it over and over. It's actually a very age-old adage we've heard for decades around how a CEO should communicate with their organization is when you start getting really sick, feeling like you've said it over and over again, you're just starting to get through to your organization, and that's very similar in terms of here, and that's the beauty of starting with core themes. You don't need to say you don't need to have a point of view on everything. You need to have your primary point of view on a handful of themes or topics, and then that is what serves as the foundation for your content and breaks it down.

Gary:

But we also need to be thinking about distribution, and that is also where the ops comes in, and this is another observation about distribution, and that is also where the ops comes in, and this is another observation, which is that, because the content is distributed through so many forms at so many places across the zone, with so many mediums and channels, we have to be good at measurement.

Gary:

But measurement really more in the terms of the jur, the buyer's journey through our systems and looking at it on the basis of cohorts so that we can see progressions. Are we, is what we're doing? Working because we will, by definition, be making changes and if there's any lag, which there will be between when people start their relationship, deepen, enable, actually move into a buying process and then ultimately buy and then activate, we need to be able to see, as we're making changes in real time. Are those changes? Are we seeing leading indicators that those changes are putting us in the right direction? We don't have the luxury of waiting three months, six months, nine months to see if it actually turns into revenue or not. We don't have to wait that long if we've measured through cohorts.

Andy:

Well, I've always called them kind of proxy metrics, which are things like visits and sessions and so on. But here's the thing, the here's the thing, it's, it's, it's the same story, like you know. You're like if, if you have a huge bounce rate on some piece of content that you've distributed through some means people aren't seeing it, people aren't reading it you know, right then, that everything that happens after that is for naught because it's not happening after that. Right, so it's not happening after that, right. So there's, there's some really simple things you can do to say like I know I'm getting some kind of engagement here, there's a value to that, versus people are reading this, people are opening this email, whatever it is. You then know, ok, I got to change something up here. Oh, okay, I got to change something up here. And that is why the audience, the zone and what you're trying to accomplish there, versus the piece of content and how you're distributing it, they're all linked. What you're measuring against that, what the piece of content is and how you intend on distributing it, should all be contemplated a little bit up front.

Andy:

And that sounds very complicated, but it's really not. It's like I know this content is really oriented toward this type of distribution method and I'm looking to in zone one, I'm looking to see that people are reading it period. It's that simple Because that's the way you then know if they're engaged with it, that they're gonna, you know they're, they have the potential at least to matriculate uh into into other zones later on. If they don't, nothing ever happened. It's like nothing ever happened, right? So it's sometimes just that simple and it doesn't need to be complicated. But you should think about those dynamics, obviously, content distribution method, which we talked about, but also, you know in in the, in that arena that I'm putting it out there, what are going to be those early indicators and you know, can I measure them, which you can always to your point, uh, but the things I can measure, what are going to be the things that are like binary?

Gary:

like this isn't working or this is working. This is helping the equation, yeah, and I think so from a CEO perspective, as we start to think, rethink how we build marketing. From a zero-based mindset, we can avoid the traps of hiring roles on the basis of what's been done in the market before, because those common roles are typically based on models that are for much larger organizations that are capable of specialization, or for venture-backed companies that are on a completely different trajectory and playbook, and so, in the lower middle market, it's about orchestration. Therefore, if we have, for example, lifecycle marketing, which is more often than not about customers and customer marketing, if you will, well, let's break it down into content and distribution. What content are we sending them? Is it really that different than what we're sending and delivering to prospects, enabling the buyers to buy all the way through the engine? Probably not, if we have a core point of view. There may be something specific about certain features and some level of depth, but for the most part, the themes will remain the same, and now more than ever, if our model is done correctly from a pricing and packaging perspective, our existing customers serve as the best revenue opportunity through expansion, as the best revenue opportunity through expansion, but they may have come in at different times and zones, and so we need to constantly re-educate them about how they should be thinking about this. That content is really not that different.

Gary:

The distribution channels what do we typically use for distribution? Email, maybe some webinars, landing pages, product app, product we can do that in other aspects as well. So this is, andy, your earlier point. This is where we get into the exciting place of the scalability and repeatability of it. If we think differently, just about back to the core functions we're trying to have happen, and then what are the resources, tools, processes, people that we can use to implement that? That gets us thinking differently about how we approach marketing. It'll also probably have you investing more in marketing because you realize that some of the distribution that you're using today is through very expensive, not very scalable salespeople, and there are better ways to distribute that content.

Andy:

So, yeah, lifecycle Marketer is a great example, right, and I think of that, and I don't want to jump ahead too much about the people involved, but having the right people doing call it more general marketing things suffice in the lower middle market for that role. It's almost like the 80-20, right. When you know what drives value to your customer base, that message can be adapted pretty readily to existing customers, to the expansion play, to adopting new things in certain use cases and so on. And then it's a matter of somebody determining who should receive what message. But those messages are already there. It doesn't need to be its own function. It cuts across all of the zones and that's a zone that it's distributed against, if you will.

Gary:

Absolutely Well. We could probably spend another 45 minutes talking about the people, but we don't want to do that. So what we will do, however, is we're going to be as we do every week we'll publish what we call a GTM short on this very topic, and we'll actually outline and provide some examples of what the zero-based build would look like for a lower middle market company. So if you'd like to see that, we encourage you to check out gtmproco. You can subscribe to the GTM Shorts, and we'll also publish that next week, and you'll also find us on LinkedIn. You can follow Gary or Andy, or GTM Pro or Tiana as well, and we'll be publishing it there. So that'll be additional detail. So until next week, we'll see you then. Bye. Thank you for tuning in to GTM pro, where you become the pro. We're here to foster your growth as revenue leader, offering the insights you need to thrive. For further guidance, visit gtmproco and continue your path to becoming board ready with us. Share this journey, subscribe, engage and elevate your go-to-market skills. Until next time, go be a pro.